What the Hell Are Grimes and Lana Del Rey Even Talking About?

Grimes and Lana Del Rey are everything and nothing alike at once: They’re both simultaneously acclaimed and derided musicians concerned with representing the future through polar opposite lenses, who came up the early 2010s blogosphere and ended the decade with many opinions and problematic boyfriends. Who better to share a conversation in the very pages of the venerable Interview magazine? Del Rey interviewed Grimes for this one (along with The OA creator-star Brit Marling), and to no one’s surprise, it was a trip. It kicked off with an Elon Musk appearance (“Hey, Lana. It’s Elon. I’m about to leave.”) and only went up from there, as Grimes and Lana got into it about religion, art and love. Here, for instance, is Grimes’s impossible-to-summarize answer when Del Rey asked if the songs on her new album, Miss_Anthropocene, were “more personal” or “have the overculture weighing on them”:

A bit of both. I’m really obsessed with polytheism. I love how the ancient Greeks or the ancient Egyptians lived in this weird anime world where there were just tons of gods that could be anything. It’s like every form of suffering had a representation. I wonder if it almost has a positive psychological effect. If your kid dies in a war, you can literally go speak to War and be like, “Why did you do this?” Or, “I hope you did this for a reason.” There’s a weird philosophical justification for all pain, and there’s an anthropomorphization of every form of pain. In our current society, we don’t even know how to talk about things. So my album’s about a modern demonology or a modern pantheon where every song is about a different way to suffer or a different way to die. If you think about it, god-making or god-designing just seems so fun. The idea of making the Goddess of Plastic seems so fun to me.

Later, in a perfectly evocative exchange, Grimes said, “If there’s an artist I love, I see them live and I cry, and I’m like, ‘Man, I’m acting like some 14th-century farmer right now.’ I feel like some pilgrim seeing a holy relic or something.” Del Rey replied, on-brand as ever, “I’ve felt that way at a [Bob] Dylan concert.” Grimes also explained that she often makes controversial comments because she doesn’t “think in words,” but rather “in weird pictures”: “I just run my mouth like a fucking asshole and there’s nothing I can do about it,” she said. Del Rey, meanwhile, guesses that the soundbite of the interview will be her saying she might name a child “Maria Estela” or “Ivory Cricket” — but let’s be real, that’s the least of our concerns here. Grimes, for one, is much more concerned about whether she will have to testify in court:

You hit a phase where you lose your life. I open the internet sometimes, and it’s like, “Grimes is testifying in court,” and I’m like, “What the fuck is this? I’m definitely not testifying in court.” I call my lawyer: “Am I testifying in court?” And they’re like, “No, you’re definitely not testifying in court.”

Yes, Grimes may have to testify in court.

As the conversation goes on, the two tease potential future book plans and Grimes compares a listener’s ability to recognize her music to “gaydar.” The two lovebirds wrapped by talking about how their relationships affect their music, with Grimes saying, “In my current relationship, we’re both super alpha, crazy people. It’s just level ten all the time, which is great, even though it’s very crazy.” So, can we get these two on a podcast or something?