Some lessons need to be learned over and over again. When Bob Dylan and the Beatles broke through in the Sixties, they paved the way for generations of artists to write their own songs. But by the early 2000s, the charts had been largely reclaimed by pro songwriters and svengali producers — until a young, putatively country artist named Taylor Swift came along.

As Swift rapidly moved toward pop stardom, guitar always in hand, she started an industry-wide movement toward artists — especially young women — writing about their own lives again. “When we look at what’s at the top in 2024,” Rob Sheffield, author of the new book Heartbreak is the National Anthem: How Taylor Swift Reinvented Pop Music, says in the latest episode of Rolling Stone Music Now, “we see these women who don’t sound anything like Taylor and don’t sound like each other, but they’re all, in different ways, taking off from the territory that she opened up.” To hear the whole episode, go here for the podcast provider of your choice, listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or just press play above.

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In the episode, we break down Sheffield’s book and go deep into Swift’s enormous influence on pop, which also includes helping bring back “song-ass songs” — music that can be performed acoustically without depending on production. With Brittany Spanos and host Brian Hiatt joining the discussion, we also debate Swift’s first single choices (why did she choose “Me!” from Lover?), ponder rumors that Swift will release the “Taylor’s Versions” of Reputation and her self-titled debut on the same day, go inside Swift and Harry Styles’ songs about each other, and much more.

Download and subscribe to Rolling Stone‘s weekly podcast, Rolling Stone Music Now, hosted by Brian Hiatt, on Apple Podcasts or Spotify (or wherever you get your podcasts). Check out six years’ worth of episodes in the archive, including in-depth interviews with Mariah Carey, Bruce Springsteen, Questlove, Halsey, Neil Young, Snoop Dogg, Brandi Carlile, Phoebe Bridgers, Rick Ross, Alicia Keys, the National, Ice Cube, Taylor Hawkins, Willow, Keith Richards, Robert Plant, Dua Lipa, Killer Mike, Julian Casablancas, Sheryl Crow, Johnny Marr, Scott Weiland, Liam Gallagher, Alice Cooper, Fleetwood Mac, Elvis Costello, John Legend, Donald Fagen, Charlie Puth, Phil Collins, Justin Townes Earle, Stephen Malkmus, Sebastian Bach, Tom Petty, Eddie Van Halen, Kelly Clarkson, Pete Townshend, Bob Seger, the Zombies, and Gary Clark Jr. And look for dozens of episodes featuring genre-spanning discussions, debates, and explainers with Rolling Stone’s critics and reporters.